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Don Tago
3/13/2004 9:56:58 PM

Eyewitness reliability?

Eyewitness evidence.."someone claiming to SEE a UFO" compared to circumstatial evidence "science proving the chance of a UFO comming here are nearly impossible" is much more reliable than the first. All a person has to believe in UFOs is this eyewitness evidence. I will not go on about it in length, but look at these links describing how the legal community are tending now to regard eyewitness testimony. The truth is, people are never sure or can believed as to what they really DID see.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20010516.html

http://www.caught.net/cases/eyewit.htm

http://www.instant-essays.com/psychology/eyewitnesses-reliability.shtml

 replies will be listed below this message edit


  Replies 1 - 10 (out of 17 total)

Robert L. Sharp
3/14/2004 11:56:29 AM

Tago:

So what does that prove? Just because certain eyewitnesses may not be
reliable, and lots of people are sent to prison because of it, what does that
have to do with UFOs? This doesn't prove a stinking thing to me.

Are we to take this as the answer to the UFO phenomena worldwide? That all
eyewitnesses are BS? That NO ONE has ever seen a UFO, or what is your point?

Looks as though you are grasping for straws for an explanation to all this, and
that you will throw anything at believers in your quest for debunking.

It's like saying that because a handful of folks have "doctored" or "hoaxed"
UFO pictures over the years, that discounts ALL of the pictures in existence.

It's like saying that because someone may have lied about an abduction or
seeing an Alien, that ALL accounts worldwide are BS.

It's like saying that a couple of drunkards went out in the middle of the night
and made a "crop circle" that all of them worldwide are BS and don't exist.

It's like saying, a whole city can see a wave of UFOs, and they are all on LSD
or have had too many shots of Tequila. MASS halucination, MASS hysteria,
ALL liars, ALL attention grabbers, ALL fantasy lovers.

Your method of saying ANYTHING to discount EVERYTHING is BS to me MR. Tago.

Your friendly believer,

Robert

son of sam
3/14/2004 1:21:07 PM

the time is right now for any of these extraterrestrial to show them salves along with their counter parts the so call hybrid. you know what it will never happen, because know one not even science can make up a hoax in this short of time to convince the public or people like myself who won't believe in fair tales and monsters.if the proof is out there witch it's probably not. sure life may be out their some where, but would it be the intelligent type that can communicate with us or have that super technology to visit us or the few living worlds if any.the stories I read about being abducted or kidnapped and these people don,t have the evidence either,and the so call scoop marks are scars that most of them can remember where they got it from.(child hood)it's been awhile also that no one as come forth to telling the world he or she has been abducted or having sex for the next race of hybrids ready to take over the world. like these other stores in the pass that get repeated over and over again and at the same time more things get added on with very little deletion,and why is that I real don't know or care either because most people know that with out the physical evidence there's nothing to think about or waste time on something that's not really true in the first place.am I right or wrong.come on you true believers you know deep down in side I,m more rite on this than the evidence that every one says is here on this planet.for I will never see it or shell you or any one else living see this type of evidence because it's science fiction.if all the world would watch the scfi channel went it comes to this you would still have the ones that want the physical evidence the proof not the movie close encounters of the third kind.there seem to be some one out there that would do what he thinks is necessary to make he or she importune to the world or friends or the really of what they believe in is real.I look at it this way,we have myths,mirages,dreams,theories,speculations,religion,the paradox of the cosmos.(that's what flying around up there or just stuck in gravity)if you don't know what's in space there is alot of words people can call you and it's the kind that insults your intelligence or in some cases the word idiot................and conspiracy that come in very shape and size to fit the imagination.I think the two greatest stories ever told are the bible that includes Adam and eve and the human evolution on this planet.maybe we should all get to gather and rewrite the whole stories of life regardless
what is right or wrong at lease it's better than what I've read at some of these site, or just let say the so call etherical being are Gods and ghost are real and having sex the a woman is an alien experience.I think this will make some heads shake!!!!these are only thoughts and based on what I read

Observant
3/14/2004 3:39:06 PM

Don,
Hinging any evaluation on "reliability--non-reliability" is a JOKE. And it is a joke simply because the way the "definitions" read, it is already a proof of unreliability if one sees or experiences anything which is different from what they guys next to you think they saw or experienced.
Take the guys looking up in Mexico City at the ufo during the eclipse of the sun. The guys who saw it and even made videos of it are not "unreliable" and their videos immediately suspect.
The guy standing next by to the one taking the video is OK because he says, "I'm not sure what I saw." People like Stanton Friedman have learned how to play the word game and that has gotten him respect- that together with knowing how to dress. (Which is most definately not a put down of Stanton, rather a statement of the way things just happen to be, like it or not.)

People are just playing social games and they will play them, "if" or "if-not" the subject is ufos or something else. The way "science" is currently being played is the same way, if you dress good, know how to talk, come from the right locations (read family and/or university), and you finally make someone's illogic totally visible to your colleagues they will reward you by starting to "believe" you instead of the other guy.

Don Tago
3/14/2004 10:35:01 PM

People are seeing something, no doubt about it. But what makes everyone so certain its an alien race from another distant world. If people go in with a preconcieved notion of what they want to see, they will see it. They can turn a shooting star, a low orbiting satiliette or even a weather balloon into a UFO. Do you think aliens are perfectly orchestrating their presence as to make sure that only a handful of select dedicated individuals believe in their existence, meanwhile, the mass public is totally unaware of their existence and activity, convinced that the believers are wackos and nuts. Isnt it great how the aliens only make themselves present from far distances high in the sky when no one has a camera, but when the aliens come down and land right in front of them, and get out, and wave hey to everyone, they seem to have misplaced their camera. I want to see a video of a spacecraft land, see the aliens get out, invite the video taper into the craft, take them on a little joyride to Jupiter and back, and then drop him off back in front of his house. now THAT would be some evidence. and i have read account of just that sort of thing happening. i guess his battery for the Sony was still charging.

Observant
3/14/2004 11:07:06 PM

Don,
What makes some people certain is that they are certain. They haven't had to do any guesswork and and they haven't had to play any mind games.

lluminati
3/14/2004 11:17:18 PM

Don Tango - These "things" people are seeing are alien craft for these reasons.

1. The "objects" are known to fly in the sky intelligently though patterns and thier movments
2. They are known to accelerate and reach speeds in flight that are impossible for human aircraft to achieve.
3. They look like ARTIFICIAL structures flying through the air with symetry and WINDOWS
4. Humans have no aircraft that look like this, SO its logical to say that thier aliens in the craft
5. More than one of these "objects" are known to fly in unison in realation to eachother the same as human airforce pilots do in fighter patterns.
6. These "objects" are known to complete VIOLENT AIRBORNE movements that no HUMAN aircraft can. Like 90 degree angles, etc
7. They make no noise whatsoever when they hover in the air. No human aircraft can do this



These are just some of the CONSERVATIVE REASONS WHY THESE "OBJECTS" COULDNT BE ANYTHING ELSE BUT ALIENS.

lluminati
3/14/2004 11:19:32 PM

And about the reliability of witnesses. ALL the reasons I descibed are documented by PHOTOS AND PICTURES, NOT EYEWITNESSES!

wake up sir

Don Tago
3/15/2004 6:55:51 PM

Mr Illuminati,

let me tackle your little line of deduction one step at a time...

firstly...

1. Who is one to determine "intelligent" movement thru the sky. A straight line, loop dee loops, drawing hearts with arrows thru them? You could call just about anything intelligent movement, and anything unintelligent movement. I would call anything other than a straight line unintelligent movement, mostly because its the fastest and most efficient path between two points. and sudden 90 degree angles. now there is some unintelligent movement. Think about the stress on not only the craft, but the ppl inside it, making those sorts of maneuvers at high speeds creates incredible G's. and why would they need to design a ship to withstand those sorts of G's when any ship that would come here would spend 99% of its time in free space anyway...
2. Again, high speeds and sudden accelleration create massive G's on a craft, so why would they carelessly go around making these dangerous maneuvers and risk destroying their ship, when it wouldnt be very easy to get home. And let me tell you, if the Roswell craft was destroyed when it hit the ground, no way any craft of the same nature withstand the sort of acceleration and G force that would be subjected to it with the manuevers ppl claim they make.
3.I think any structures that are seen in the air could probably be considered artificial. What would be a natural structure in the air? People see all sorts of things in the sky, they also see the virgin mary in blueberry pies, and satan in a hurricane.
4. Who are you to say what type of aircraft the US govt does or doesnt have...do you work for NASA and the USAF?
5. Fly in unison you say. Maybe the aliens have come to our planet to practise their military manuevers because our atmosphere is less dense than theirs is. that makes plenty of sense. Why would alien exploratory aircraft fly in formation. Why do we ever fly in formation, air shows for one, also to make attack patterns. i doubt the aliens are doing either of these. maybe they have come here to play out some sort of civil war...
6. Being that they make no noise while they hover in the air is more an indication that they are not really there, rather than that they have such ingenuity to create an engine without sound. What advantage would a noiseless engine have anyway. Anything that would create the sort of lift necessary to keep a UFO in the air would have to make some sort of sound, or have a tremendous force of air comming from it...

i hope this was helpful

Observant
3/15/2004 7:57:47 PM

Don,
Nearly everyone who has been studying the subject of ufos have done their thinking a very long way out beyond where you are. they were considering these "problems" you offer something like 30 years ago. That is how far behind you are.
Now this is fine, because everyone has to start someplace and I, for one woudn't want to put you off so much that you would just stop studying and learning.
But even if you don't count the people who have been in the thick of things, the people who have just been studying and learning already can say these replies:
"Who is one to determine "intelligent" movement thru the sky"
Well, you have a point. What one may considers "intelligent" doesn't always agree with the next guy. However, that completely rules out who the ufos respond to persons ground side from time to time. (My money however is on the amount of perception of the individual involved, just how observant he is.)
"and sudden 90 degree angles. now there is some unintelligent movement. Think about the stress on not only the craft, but the ppl inside it, making those sorts of maneuvers at high speeds creates incredible G's."
Inertia is what has to be bypassed or done away with and voila you've got a wonderful turning radius
"and why would they need to design a ship to withstand those sorts of G's when any ship that would come here would spend 99% of its time in free space anyway.."
Nope, the landers are landers. Landers are not deep space ships and they are designed for our deep gravity well.
"Who are you to say what type of aircraft the US govt does or doesnt have."
What does the US goverment have, it has anti-gravs in operation currently. It's got particle beams currently. If we really have anything which is inertialess, then it was back engineered. Who am I, well I one of the people who knows and that is going to be the only answer anyone is going to be willing to give you.
"Fly in unison you say. " Now come on, surely you can do better than this. Heavy gravity planet, remember.
"What advantage would a noiseless engine have anyway." It's the wrong question.
Noiseless is a byproduct of the propulsion, just like protons are.

lluminati
3/15/2004 10:06:59 PM

Mr.Tango your logic is flawed.

Intelligent movements most people can agree upon. A comet doesnt suddenly change directions several times in midair and then hover in one place. Nor Mr.Tango does a comet have windows.

They perform 90 degree angle movements to PROVE to people like you that thier NOT HUMAN AIRCRAFT. They are showing-off thier technologhy when they do things like this. There is a energy force or something that negates the effects on the outside felt on the inside of the craft.

The advantages of making a craft that is silent is a byproduct of the crafts propulsion system. Also making a craft that doesnt make noise would certainly fit thier covert nature during abductions. Does a electric car these days make much noise? Answer that.

These craft arent are governments craft. Unless you #1 think that humans are so advanced that a round object can fly at mach 10+ speeds and isnt prone to the laws of aero-dynamics or thermo-dynamics. #2 That the goverment would gladly display these craft for all to see and watch. YEEP EE!

Well you never really had any logic to counter-act what I just said. Your own ego and perceptions are getting in the way of accepting the obvious. Its natural for a human mind to reject the notion of aliens. In time you will learn just as I have to see past things.

Are you waiting for the media to tell you everything in order for you to know something?

Think for yourself. Clear your mind.


  Replies 1 - 10 (out of 17 total)



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